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Linux Tutorial :: View topic - Problems configuring a new machine into an existing network
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Problems configuring a new machine into an existing network
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Tel
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Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Ex-London - Now Malaga, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject: Problems configuring a new machine into an existing network Reply with quote

Hi all. Well, it didn't take me long to hit my first real brick wall.

I've installed a version of Ubuntu Linux (5.10) that I found on a cd left by my predecessor onto my (previosly dead) Dev PC. No graphics, just command line - reminds me of my old IBM days when a "PC" was made by Commadore and graphics was a black background and two white rectangles for bats and a white square for a ball...

The install went ok, I got the operating system working, got logged in and started work on getting onto the office network: Linux server + 9 Windows PCs over ethernet / TCP/IP.

Bearing in mind I've never worked with Linux before, the tutorials really helped and I have got to the stage where I can "ping and be pinged" - but can't get the other PCs to accept me on the network. I know this sounds like a possible windows problem (The great oxymoron: Microsoft Works!), but I'm not so sure. I'll try to list as much info as I can think of that might be relevant...

> Its physically plugged into the router (obvious I know, but... Smile
> I've checked the IP address is ok (it was already allocated to this machine, which must have been working in the past)
> the /etc/hosts file lists all PCs on the network
> the /etc/network/interfaces looks ok - DNS server name, netmask, network, broadcast and gateway addresses look as they should
> I've compared all the relevant files to those on the live server

Interestingly, the /etc/inetd file is missing, which seems like an important file - but its also missing from the live server which IS visible in the network. It does have a /etc/inetd.config - which I copied onto the Dev. There is also no /etc/rc.d (although there are rc0.d-rc6.d plus a rcs.d) but none of these seem to have anything to start inetd.

So... I suppose my question is: is there anything glaringly obvious that I've missed? I know I'm connected to the outside world thanks to ping, so what's stopping me talking to Dev via the web and http//%ip_address% or SSHing via PUTTY, or being visible from the windows machines???
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koen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

given that you can "ping and be pinged", you've got network connectivity and probably have the network config OK
That means that the other machines on the network can reach you - on an networtk level (they can ping you, you can; ping them, correct ?)

The following mau be too obvious, but it never hurts to rule out the obvious pittfalls first:

1/ for Windows PC's to 'see' your Dev, ie in Windows Network Neighborhood, you need SAMBA. This is an open source implementation of the SMB protocol, also known as windows networking / file and printer sharing. I think to at least be visible in the network neigborhood, you'll need SAMBA's nbt daemon (the "NETBIOS" component of SAMBA)

2/ likewise, to be accessible via http, your Dev needs to be running a http server, aka a http daemon or a web server. Apache is a welknown one, but there are plenty others.

3/again, to be accessible via SSH, you need to be running sshd, the 'secure shell daemon' - eg. OpenSSH.

In short : while you have network connectivity, you may not have any applications "listening" on your server, so it's pretty much invisible. You will need to install the servers for whatever it is you want this machine to do (web server, file server, mail server, telnet server, ...)

Or, if you want this machine to use services provided by other machines, you need to install the corresponding clients (a http client, aka a web browser, if you want to access a web server, etc)


If you're coming from a Windows background, you might expect all these things to just be there, as Microsoft installs a lot of these services during operating system setup, to improve the user's "out of the box experience".
Like i said, it's maybe too obvious. If so, just come back here with feedback.

As for inetd, that is the 'super server', sort of an umbrella over several network services. You don't really need it technically (the daemons also work without it - inetd often implemented for security reasons), and inet alone, without other daemons, is just the umbrella : it's only function is to start other daemons when they're needed so inetd only will not get you anywhere either.
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Tel
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Location: Ex-London - Now Malaga, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Koen,

That'll teach me to try to run before I can walk! Of course, the obvious is often overlooked in favour of complexity! I'm under pressure from the boss to get this thing up and running as soon as possible (don't they always want it done yesterday!) so I'm missing what I should be seeing if I had plenty of time to play.

I've downloaded a load of binary files from ubuntu that make up their Samba package (seemed logical to stick with what I've already got). They tell me to "install" these and... oh, oh...

One thing that I've found with Linux is that nothing is [i]that[/i] straightforward! You are right, my having worked with windows for so long makes it easy to forget there is a complex operating system lurking beneath those pretty graphics. Working with Linux in server mode is interesting, to say the least. No pretty graphics, no user-friendly icons and no " just run the install program".

I've trawled a lot of sites for the really basic stuff like that and that seems to be the hardest stuff to find! Hence this forum, I suppose... I've been here only 5 minutes and already its helped me more than all the manuals could!

So I'll spend some time this afternoon trying to install this collection of files by hook or by crook and let you know how I got on...

Then I'll go for the other bits and pieces - I have a copy of apache and getting SSH to work shouldn't be too hard. Thanks again!
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koen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]just run the install program". [/quote]
In fact, Ubuntu does have that, even in a command line interface : apt-get.
eg. to install apache you'd just type
[code:1]sudo apt-get install apache2[/code:1]
'sudo' roughly means 'run as system administrator'.apache2 is a debian package that installs not too different from a .msi or a setup.exe in Windows.

To find the names of packages (so I can use them in an apt-get statement), I usually use google + packages.debian.org. apt-get is from Debian Linux, but Ubuntu uses it as well.

Good luck
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Tel
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Posts: 28
Location: Ex-London - Now Malaga, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys,

I tried the apt-get with apache2 and it worked a treat. Spent time building up the httpd.conf file which was empty and now it looks fine. Still cant start apache though, libphp4.so was missing, so got a copy from live system but startup failed again - the module wasn't compiled for threaded MPM, so there's more to do still...

And I've still got Samba and OpenSSH to deal with - watch this space.

PS to ffreeloader: Thanks for the info, but this system won't be getting a GUI - it has to run as a server to mirror our live one so I can safely test stuff as it would be in the live environment. So I have to learn to use command line (all over again) - not easy for a windows guy (or should I say "soon-to-be-an-ex-windows-guy" - no pun intended).
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koen
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Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote] httpd.conf file was empty ...[/quote]
that's probably because it's not used any more. It still works (backward compatibility !) but apache2 config is done in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf.
apache2.conf in turn is extended by a number of files, a.o. in .../apache2/sites-available and .../apache2/mods-available. They contain parts of the conf file (about sites and modules respectively) which can be activated by copying them (or creating symbolic links) in sites-enabled or mods-enabled.
It's done so for scalability (multiple sites on the same server) and easier management (one file per module), but just putting everything in httpd.conf should still work as well.

I'm quite sure you can apt-get install the php4 module and let apt configure it to match your system, in stead of building it yourself. 'apt-get install php4' or so ?

And when you start to think that all this linux stuff is hard, imagine how much harder it would be to install or configure Internet Information Service and File and Printer Service on a windows system, with only a DOS prompt. Not to mention secure shell Smile
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Tel
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Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Ex-London - Now Malaga, Spain

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm getting there...

Both Samba and OpenSSH installed ok. I can now see the Dev on the PC network and can ssh to it from a PC using PUTTY. Getting the Dev visible on the PC network was the biggest hurdle from the boss's standpoint, so thanks again for your help!

I've still got work to do with apache - I tried the "apt-cache search php | less" (Pipe - I'd been after something that would do that.. a bit like /p in DOS) but didn't need to pipe as there wasn't much of it - just over a page. That didn't seem enough - so there's more to do...
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Tel
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Posts: 28
Location: Ex-London - Now Malaga, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again,

I've made progress with my development system - I've installed mysql and apache2 and almost got php in... but not quite.

I followed install instructions which didn't use apt-get - I guessed because mysql and apache have to be installed first so they can be configured with php - so I used the following:

./configure --with-mysql=/usr/local/mysql --with-config-file-path=/www/conf --with-apache=/etc/apache2 --enable-track-vars

then I got this error:

checking for gcc... no
checking for cc... no
configure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH

I guessed there was no c compiler to be found, so went to Ubuntu and downloaded their gcc, installed it with no aparent problems then tried to re-install php. I got this error:

checking host system type…
checking for gcc... gcc
checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) works... no
configure: error: installation or configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables

I went back and checked I got all the files for gcc, which I had, so any ideas what I do now?
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koen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impressive. From "while I am fine with Dos and windows based PC's, Linux is new to me" to " I've got apache and mysql running, can someone help me with this compiler problem" in a matter of weeks, without GUI. No small potatos, it took me years Smile

So as usual, there are at least 2 sollutions :


1- you *can* install php via apt-get. "apt-get install php4" or "apt-get install php5" according to the version you want. Make sure your apache and mysql are working before you install php. restart apache after the php setup.
Then "apt-get install php5-mysql" (or the corresponding php4 package) to make sure php can work with mysql. In the apache package, support for php is included by default.
You can test php by creating a page (say, test.php) somewhere in apache's directories, so that you can find it by browsing (from an other machine) to http://<server>/path_to_test.php. In test.php you should have
[code:1]
<?php
phpinfo();
?>
[/code:1]
which will display your php config if all is well.


2- if you're convinced you want to install php by compiling source code, we need to find out why gcc won't do what it is supposed to. Did you run it as root ? (sudo ./configure [options])
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koen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

small add-on

the instructions you got with php (something along the lines of "download this tar, unpack it, then run ./configure ; make ; make install ;" ?) are generic, i.e. they tell you to compile the source code of the program. This works on any Linux, probably some other unixes as well, and allows you to compile it configured the way you want it (eg. include support for mysql, as you did).

To install compiled packages, you'd probably want to use a package manager and these differ from one Linux distro to the next : apt on Debian, Ubuntu etc, rpm on RedHat, Fedora, and many others, yast for SuSE, ...
On top of that, additional functionality would need to be added by way of additional modules, again via the package manager and possibly with some editing of config files.
So in stead of giving instructions for all possible linux distro's / package managers / with all possible additional modules, you just get the "works on any system" instructions, assuming thet either you're OK with that, or you know how to use a package manager on your distro of choice Smile
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Tel
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Location: Ex-London - Now Malaga, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds impressive, but if you saw me getting to this stage - mostly rummaging round in the dark, trying this and trying that, mostly getting it wrong and coming very close to throwing the machine out the window many times... not so impressive!

Thanks for your help - you're right I was trying to install from source - I forgot why, then forgot that I had downloaded a source tar file and not a binary - then remembered it was direct from php.net and they don't distribute binaries to Linux/Unix and that's how I ended up with source!

I'm logged in as root (I'm a devil-may-care thrill junkie) so there shouldn't be any security issue with the gcc. I'm still not sure about why it wouldn't compile...

I went to Debian and downloaded the binaries and will have another go at it tomorrow - my head hurts right now...
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Tel
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Location: Ex-London - Now Malaga, Spain

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick add-on to the above. This is probably going to sound pretty stupid (especially after my "impressive" start Confused ) but I downloaded all the binary files for php4 from the Debian site (easier to navigate than Ubuntu), then tried to install with apt-get. I got:

"Couldn't find package php4".

I made sure I was actually sitting on the right directory, logged in as root (just to make things exciting) I even tried making a symbolic link to the ungainly and overlong file-name(s) as "php4" - but apt-get wasn't having any of it. I re-checked debian to make sure I didn't miss a file in the download list. These are the php4 files I have:

php4_4.3.10-16_i386.deb
php4-cli_4.3.10-16_i386.deb
php4-common_4.3.10-16_i386.deb
php4-pear_4.3.10-16_all.deb

plus a brace of library files and other bits and pieces. I tried apt-get install for each one in turn, although I think the first one in the list is the install file.

That's why I think I might be doing something stupid, because 'in any investigation, when you've exhausted all the "complicated" what's left is the "simple" ' Wink
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koen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should probably get to know apt a bit better, it will help you to add software to your system:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/

in 2 words:
you don't need to download anything : when you apt-get install something, apt will download it (from locations defined in /etc/apt/sources.list) and install it.

Have a look at the sources list ("cat /etc/apt/sources.list" or "vim /etc/apt/sources.list"/ ; cat is like TYPE in DOS, vim is a text editor).

Probably the apt sources do not include the "universe" repository, and this is aparently where Ubuntu keeps its php package ("universe" holds packages not specific to Ubuntu, and probably just points to the debian repositories etc).

If you need to edit sources.list, you can use vim.
Here is a man(ual) page : http://www.linux-tutorial.info/modules.php?name=ManPage&sec=1&page=vi
basics:
hit insert key to go to 'edit' mode,
make changes
hit Escape : wq
escape key is to stop editing
:w means write (save) , :q means quit, so :wq means "save changes and exit"


As you've downloaded the packages, you could have a look at 'using apt locally' : http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-basico.en.html#s-dpkg-scanpackages

you could also try dpkg --install name-of-package.deb, but i 'm not sure this will handle dependencies, so if other packages need to be installed first because php depends on them, this might fail. Apt-get does handle dependencies (extremely well).

So, 3 possible sollutions. I'd go for the sources.list first.

Have fun.
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Tel
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info guys, I'll be browsing the manual in a few minutes - another in the long line of manuals I have already read in my attempts to learn all the intriacies of Linux. They've all helped in one way or another, but the problems with manuals is you can't ask them a question and always get the answer you need straight away. That's ok if you're learning the system in your own time, maybe on a machine in your home or maybe at school or university and you're not under any pressure with strict time restraints. I know from experience that the answers come eventually with a combination of research and hands on "playing" - I was there in the '70's when IBM ruled the world, Bill Gates was just an employee of HP and IT wasn't called IT, it was called DP (Data Processing - a little trivia for you).

In my case, I don't have a lot of "playing" time - I joined this small company that needed an IT guy to take over from the guy who left suddenly with developments only half done. You'll see from my introduction I'd never worked with Linux before and here I am, with a Linux server and a stack of live websites living on it, all built with the "LAMP" bundle of technologies - and a linux development machine (with a corrupted operating system) for me to test and complete the new developments on. I have to learn fast and on-the-fly to get this machine up to a working state... and I'm alone, with no-one to ask questions of.

Which is why this forum is (and has been) so important to me. I've found and read some good manuals online but you've helped me a lot already by fitting in the pieces ot the jigsaw that the manuals leave out (or don't always make plain where to look) and I've come along in leaps and bounds. So I really am grateful for your help.

Just a couple of notes so you know where I was coming from:

I was using apt-get to install binaries (I did try to install php4 source first using ./configure - make etc, but you 'll see the results in one of my previous posts in this thread).

Interestingly (as I said in previous posts), I've already successfully used apt-get to install SSH, Samba, Apache and MySql - all with binaries I'd downloaded onto a windows PC (ok, tantamount to blasphemy, I know 'Confused') then transferred to the Linux with a memory stick (it wasn't connected to the LAN/internet at that stage).

PHP was last in the list. After I realised I had problems with the source install I took Koen's advice and I got the binaries from Debian and used apt-get the same way I did for the other installs. I did use the fully qualified filenames first (as an IBM command-line old-timer that's how it was ALWAYS done - old habits die hard) - then tried the symbolic link only when I didn't get any joy the first way.

I reckon I explained it badly in my last post, my last question should've been more like: howcome I couldn't install php4 (using apt-get) when I had successfully installed all the other packages the same way?

But I'll read the manual first and post another note to let you know how I got on...
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Tel
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks ffreeloader, I think you hit the nail on the head with Sarge/Sid. There was no actual error message, just the one line saying

"Couldn't find package php4".

I had downloaded quite a few files containing "sarge" and had no idea what it meant. I probably had the wrong set of files to start with. That was before I knew apt-get downloaded what it needed... man, would that've saved me some time! But as things have unravelled, its not a problem anymore. I read the manual and..

The first couple of chapters of the APT HOWTO told me what I needed to get started... I edited the /etc/apt/sources.list as Koen pointed out, uncommented the lines I wanted and gave it a try. I was interested to see it do the download, so I went for apt-get rather than "dpkg" and installed php4. I ran it again to link mysql and that went without a hitch too.

I've got some serious setting up and configuring to do but at least I've now got a working system.

You are right about it not being possible to learn Linux (or any other system for that matter) quickly. Although it is very different to windows, its not so different from the old (now defunct) Tandem Non-Stop systems I used to run with in the 80's - they had only a command line prompt and a very basic text editor for writing scripts/programs. Sure, the commands and operating systems are different between Tandem and Linux, but there are similarities in that you do have to get your hands dirty and get to grips with the nuts and bolts of the system, whereas windows wraps you in cotton wool and leads you to believe that it does it all for you.

I'm getting to like Linux more and more as each layer of the learning onion is unwrapped, with each new nugget of information and snippet of a hint or tip - I like to have control over what a system is doing, not have it control me. Windows has its uses and I have to stay with it as there are several windows PCs in this office that I have to support, but all the development has to be done on the linux server. The websites I have inherited are written mainly in php and use the MySql database living on the server, again all new to me - quite a common setup these days it seems, so my learning curve is about as steep as it gets...

I don't expect to know it all right away, or even in 6 months or a year, my brain isn't quite as quick as it was 20 or so years ago, but just to know enough to do my job and keep learning as I go is good enough. Thanks for all your help - I'm sure I'll be back with a new post on some other problem before long...

A little knowledge may be dangerous, but a little more is dynamite Smile
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Tel
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]That was the exact error: apt-get couldn't find the package on the server. Most likely what ever repository apt-get was pointed to by /etc/apt/sources.list just plain old didn't contain the php4 package for whatever the reason at that time.[/quote]

Aha, /etc/apt/sources.list was completely commented out when I first edited it - so of course it didn't know where to look! It all makes sense now.

I've been to the Debian site and yes, its quite easy to navigate - I found the packages section (that's where most of the software came from) and downloading was easy, although longwinded at times, as some packages had lots of related packs that were "depends" - meaning chasing down several sets of files. That's why finding out that apt-get goes and gets them all for you was a quantum leap in time-and-effort-saving!
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Tel
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just noticed I've gone from being a Newbie to a Beginner... When (how, what did I do) did that happen??? Surprised
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Tel
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Time to go home now... Its been an interesting day Bye for now...
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